Roger Dooley: "You have to control and step out of the treasure hunters" | Culture

P. He is accused of not being an archaeologist. That has studied?

R. I started studying Physical Oceanography in Cuba, at the Academy of Sciences, because at that time there was no Archeology School. When the Institute of Archeology was created, I studied four years, graduated and did my master's degree in 1975. I am a professional archaeologist.

P. Your name appears in the call Clinton List of Control of Foreign Assets of the US Treasury.

R. In 1979 I worked in Cuba and earned seven dollars a month and they offered me a job of 1,000 dollars a week in a charter company to join Cuba and Florida at the time of Jimmy Carter. I found it perfect. Ronald Reagan arrived and ended the flights and closed the company. That's why all the workers were on the list. But years later, I hired a lawyer, and they took me out. They never accused me, nor was I a prisoner.

P. Were you a member of the Cuban Communist Party? Since I was at the Academy, I had licenses ...

R. Never. That cost me a lot of problems.

P. The Colombian Government will give MAC 50% of what is extracted in the Saint Joseph If you don't break the contract.

R. It is a project of 50 or 60 million dollars. Colombia in 2013 created a new law that allows working in the country in exchange for delivering as payment all non-assets. I looked for Colombians with capital, but I didn't find them. Then I returned to Colombia on behalf of MAC and we found the galleon.

P.How much have you invested so far?

R. Six or seven million dollars have been since 2015: 60 investigators, lawyers, specialists ... A lot of money has been put in.

P. If MAC invests, at the moment, seven million dollars, it will want to recover, at least, the same amount of the deposit.

R. Nerd. That is the initial. The only way to recover it is to invest 60 million, make an excavation and have the Colombian government pay it in some way.

P. But could the government only pay you with the gold of the ship?

R. Logically If the Executive does not agree to make this association, there may be a process. Paying seven or 10 million to leave everything the same is not reasonable. Also, I think they have no capital. If the excavation is signed, 70 million will have to be paid. They can pay with a small percentage of what is not equity.

P. What is not heritage on a state vessel?

R. What they say in the law that is repetition. Let's say that if there are thousands of coins of the same year and they are all the same, logically they can be to compensate (to MAC). They can also pay in cash. The only way to pay is with what your own law says.

P. How are you going to pay with a unique historical site?

R. I understand that But there is a Colombian law that says that if I have three million repeated coins, then one for display and payment with the rest the millions that the excavation costs. Colombia decided and MAC said: 'I invest'.

R. No, there are 600 people dead on the ship. Only the winery remains, the ship sank, exploded, drowned ... There is no grave with 600 sailors. Thousands of boxes remain in the warehouse. Well maybe there is someone among them caught It also breaks down.

P. Spain has offered help to Colombia to take the boat out of a disinterested way.

R. There is no Spanish proposal to invest 60 or 100 million dollars. There is talk only of collaboration and that is good, in fact, I have Spanish researchers who are collaborating with me in ceramics, in armament ... I do not know if Spain is willing to invest millions of dollars for a laboratory, for a museum in Cartagena de Indias ...

P. What is MAC?

R. It is a consulting company.

P. Who's behind?

R. Investors

P. Where they are?

R. I can not say it. I have it signed.

P. Where is it registered?

R. In Switzerland. There are English.

P. I was in the tax haven of the Cayman Islands.

R. That was at the beginning, when it was created. But they finally decided to go to Switzerland.

P. What was he doing last week in the Archivo de Indias?

R. I've been in the archive since 1975, also in Simancas. I'm investigating the Saint Joseph.

)P. How many times have you been?

R. Since the eighties, a lot. I don't know 90, 100 times ...

P. How much can the treasure be worth?

R. It is speculation. Only what was declared to the Crown, half a million pesos (from the 18th century) is known. Although there are reports that speak of 4, 6, 9 million pesos.

P. But what do you think?

R. The more treasure there is, the less it is worth. For a silver coin from the time of Saint Joseph They pay 200, 300 dollars if it is unique. But if there are 100,000 equal coins, they are worthless.

P. But how many are there?

R. There was no inventory.

P. Have you ever been banned from entering a Spanish archive?

R. Never.

P.Does it seem logical?

R. What does the director of the file say? Well, they can't stop me. I have a researcher card.

P. But do you understand the reluctance? You get the information and take the gold.

R. MAC signed a contract with Colombia. If they had not done so, there would be no MAC.

P. If Colombia rectifies ...

R. They are entitled, but they would have to pay. Everything is legal. Frank Goddio (a French treasure hunter) sold thousands of pieces to the Naval Museum in Madrid and there they are.

P. Do you never look for ships from other countries?

R. My specialty is Spanish naval history.

P. Neither English nor Dutch?

R. I specialized in the history of Cuba, in the wrecks archive. It is the history of Spain in Cuba.

P. What do you think of the treasure hunters?

R. It is awful. You have to control them, point them out and get in the way. I am the first.