Pepe Alvarez: "The labor reform will raise the wages of hundreds of thousands of workers"


The accounts are not yet closed, but Pepe Álvarez (Belmonte de Miranda, 1956) hopes that the labor reform will go ahead this Thursday in Parliament with a large majority, "even greater than the investiture of the Government of Pedro Sánchez". The general secretary of the UGT, previously leader of the central in Catalonia and close to how the left and the working class breathe in the community, trusts that ERC is one of the parties that endorse the legislation, although this Monday it was still in the 'no'. "It is unjustifiable to say that you prevent a step up in labor rights as important as those we have in this agreement because other things are missing," he values.

We are just a few days away from the vote on the labor reform decree and the support for it to move forward is still not guaranteed. Was this situation expected when they closed the social agreement?

We did not expect it, because in the first place the Government should have done its homework beforehand. Above all, taking into account previous experiences with other social agreements, such as pensions and interims, which show to what extent political life today is so complex that it is not enough to negotiate a three-way agreement like this one. In addition, it is necessary in parallel to negotiate with the parliamentary groups. Also, because I think there is much more mistrust between the Government and the parliamentary groups that have supported it than might be reasonable.

And the final point for us: because this is an agreement of absolutely brutal depth. The political forces think that they can dismiss it with a 'yes' or a 'no' and look good, but they are not going to look good. There are concrete rights here, there is no negative element for the workers, and I dare say that neither for the companies.

In addition to the Government, it is surprising on the part of the legislature partners that they are negotiating their claims now, days before voting on the reform. In the unions have they talked with these formations about what the reform was about in these months? Has your interest arisen a little late?

They have not been placed in the character of this reform and it is difficult for them to assimilate it. It would be easy for them to justify that they do not support the decree if what was addressed now was 100% of the PP reform of 2012 and the PSOE of 2010. But it is not. This is a partial reform that deals with three points that Spain undertook to change with the European Union.

This agreement does not make it impossible to continue negotiating, nor does it prevent the groups from making proposals tomorrow in the Cortes Generales. What is voted now is strictly what the text says and all the elements it contains are beneficial for the workers of our country.

To land the legislative text, what is this labor reform going to mean for workers?

The reform has three fundamental elements. First, in collective bargaining, the permanent validity of the agreements is recovered until a new one is negotiated, which we call ultra-activity, and also makes the sector agreement prevail over the company agreement.

This affects companies that have a company agreement with wages below the sector. We are talking about tens of thousands, surely hundreds of thousands, of people whose salary is raised as a result of this royal decree.

UGT has done a study with these increases. Some example?

a chambermaid who works in the province of Barcelona in a comprehensive services company earns 5,351 euros more per year, which is the difference between the hotel sector agreement of the province and your company. Or a truck driver from the Autonomous Community of Madrid, for whom the increase will be above 7,000 euros.

We are talking about concrete things. The prevalence of the sector agreement is of real importance to ensure that companies do not subcontract, that they do not segregate part of their activity because it will not pay off. And that, if they do, workers do not lose purchasing power.

The second fundamental element of the law?

The chapter that has to do with temporary hiring. The work and service contract could last up to four years. We are now moving to a system in which there will be indefinite and temporary contracts, with a maximum of 6 months in contracts due to production circumstances, which can be extended to 12 months through collective bargaining. In addition, it will not be possible to chain contracts that add up to more than 18 months in two years. Then there is another contract for very short activities, such as fairs, etc.

Therefore, we limit temporary employment to levels that we have not had in Spain since the 1980s. This will place us, before the end of 2022 if the law is approved, in a drop in temporary employment that can even be up to 10 percentage points. It is an absolutely revolutionary change in labor relations in our country.

And finally, what do you think is the third most important point of the legislation?

It is the one that has to do with the ERTE. That is, the flexibility for companies that comes from the hand of the ERTE not to use dismissal. It becomes a permanent instrument in the labor relations of our country for when there is a natural catastrophe, before productive changes in sectors, etc. It is an extraordinarily positive flexibility system.

Basically, these are the three fundamental issues of the agreement. They do not worsen anything, nor do they consolidate any other section of the labor reform that has not been the subject of negotiation.

Some investiture partners have warned that they are in the 'no' to the reform for various demands for the dismantling of the PP legislation that are not touched. What do you think of their refusal due to the absence of these claims, which are also those of the unions?

It seems unserious to me that political formations that can make proposals every day of the year in the Congress of Deputies wait until there is a positive agreement for the workers to say no with the argument that things are missing. I have not seen that they have had great debates on these topics so far.

It is unjustifiable to say that you are preventing a step up in labor rights as important as the ones we have in this agreement because other things are missing. When that decree in no case prevents those changes, nor that they can be dealt with later. Moreover, the unions have said, and we say clearly, that we have exhausted part of the negotiation, but that there is another that we have not even started, that now we are going to start and we are going to conclude.

These parties ask to address their claims in the processing of the reform as a bill, something that you recommend avoiding. They demand that they be negotiated later, why?

The most palpable demonstration that it has to be done this way are the difficulties we have in getting this royal decree approved. Why are we going to leave something to a process in which we do not have a date, nor do we know when it is going to take place, when we have three fundamental questions that are going to change people's lives that can be approved in a parliamentary session?

It has neither feet nor head. If there were something negative or pernicious in the Royal Decree, it would be debatable, because they would have to take stock of the law. But voting against this labor reform does not mean that the other issues they ask for will be dealt with, it means that we continue with the same reform of Mariano Rajoy.

One of the parties that is in this situation is ERC, which has a great link with UGT in Catalonia. How is your position perceived in the union? What do the workers in Catalonia tell you?

The political forces that sign the manifesto I do not know if I would dare to say that they have the same position. I have the hope that the Esquerra Republicana is in the agreement. For a government party in Catalonia, such as the ERC, this surely means that it can not modify the decree, which from our point of view should not be modified or processed with a bill, but rather that it can negotiate with the Government on issues that have not yet been addressed and that, indeed, may be the subject of a subsequent legislative change.

I hope that the Esquerra Republicana can be hooked, as well as the PNV, to have a solid majority in the agreement that is finally even greater than that of the investiture of the Pedro Sánchez government.

This could include Citizens. Do you understand the misgivings about adding to the party with your votes in favor? Does Ciudadanos endorse the reform, does it make it seem less progressive?

Not at all. What is really incomprehensible is that the PP is not there. This story in our country that one thing is better or worse if the CEOE is there or not…. It is an absolutely nursery assessment. I like that the CEOE is in the agreement and I would like it to be in the next changes. The labor relations framework determines the productive system, what we are going to do in the future. And that is also important for companies.

This is not a collective agreement, in which the workers really start a part of the benefits generated in the company and where it is much more difficult for the parties to coincide. It is about something else, this is the system of labor relations for the productive system of a country, so that it is more technological, greener, more innovative. I think that this point has not been understood and therefore it is seen as something contradictory that everyone can be in the agreement. What is good for workers in this case can also be good for companies. Especially for the companies that we want for the future, which does not mean that those that exist have to close, but rather that they can be transformed.

Why do you see it as incomprehensible that the PP does not support the reform?

The Popular Party, the first opposition party, which in theory should have a high level of harmony with the business world, to say no before it has been able to read the text of the reform... Because when it said 'no' for the first time , the texts were still in the process of being prepared, I didn't even have them. It's the no for the no, really unfortunate. This is not a government issue, it is a society issue. If not, we wouldn't be the unions and employers.

Given that the parliamentary left is demanding that elements of the PP reform continue to be repealed, what issues does the UGT think should be dealt with between now and the end of the coalition government's term?

All the issues that have to do with the dismissal: causes, amount of the dismissal, recover the prior administrative authorization in the ERE, the processing wages... There are more things, but this is the fundamental element that remains to be addressed and I believe that there would be a lot of room to negotiate with the CEOE.



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