Aznar sees the dialogue table "devastating" and González describes it as "performance" in the Catalan elections

The former President of the Government José María Aznar considers that the meeting of the dialogue table held between the Government of Spain and the Catalan Government has "very serious consequences" and constitutes a "devastating element for the system." His predecessor, Felipe González has asked to "dramatize", although he has acknowledged that it was not "due to lack of concern".

After indicating that "nothing happened" in that meeting, Gonzalez stressed that it was a "performance for what is coming in autumn" with the Catalan elections. Aznar has then waited for the socialist: "You would not have done it and neither would I."

Thus they have pronounced in the opening of the I National Congress of the Civil Society with a debate centered in "rethinking Spain", that has been moderated by the president of the Real Elcano Institute, Emilio Lamo de Espinosa. This conclave, held at the Casino de Madrid, has also been attended by the mayor of the city, José Luis Martínez Almeida.


A day after that meeting in Moncloa, led by Pedro Sánchez and Quim Torra, Aznar stressed that, even if no agreement occurred, the mere fact that this meeting was held is a "devastating element for the system."

Aznar has stressed that "in democracy forms are essential because they affect the essence of the institutional system." "It is difficult to find a country that gives the key to governance to someone who is in prison convicted of sedition," he said, to emphasize that the "pact of allegiance to the Constitution has been broken."

For his part, Gonzalez has indicated that what he would be worried about is "the bottom line, not that dialogue". "It seems good to me to have a dialogue," he emphasized, to add later that they are in a "bloquism" and that he "wanted to dedramatize" even if it was not for lack of "concern" about what was happening.

"What happened yesterday and will happen tomorrow and the next day, I do not want to be wrong, it is a performance for what is coming in the autumn, the Catalan elections," González said, adding that "everyone knows that there is no room for the amnesty or for self-determination. " In fact, he has said that if someone thinks about reforming the Magna Carta so that it has a place, he will campaign against it.


The former president of the PSOE has indicated that "it seems" that this meeting had to do with the approval of the expenditure ceiling. "And what is the need to mix one thing with another?" He asked himself, to ask politicians to take "the razor from their mouths" and "reflect quietly."

González has assured that the framework of the Constitution and the law is the "perimeter in which any political person can and should speak". If someone breaks or intends to break that perimeter, he has warned, "he will legitimize others to break it on the other side," leading to the turbulence that has been caused in Spain in times past.

Before his words on the dialogue table, Aznar has said to Gonzalez: "You would not have done it and neither would I." In his opinion, it cannot be accepted as "normal" that the Government of Spain has a bilateral relationship and a dialogue between equals with the Government of a community, something that, in his opinion, "clashes with the Constitution and institutional normality" .


Gonzalez has affirmed, and Aznar has agreed, that if the Constitution were reformed it should be to make clear "what is the price to pay for constitutional loyalty," a political price, he said, regardless of the criminal. In his opinion, if there is a reform should be penalized "politically seriously disloyalty."

Of course, Gonzalez has made it clear that, although the Constitution can be reformed even in the procedures for its reform, he is not in favor of "softening them" because that would lead to "reform in one direction or another every four years."

In his view, one of the strengths of the Magna Carta is that it is not "militant" and welcomes even those who do not want it, even if it leads to "shows of a certain embarrassment" such as complying with the Constitution to work to destroy it .


Aznar has indicated that there is a "real threat" to liberal order and democracy and stressed that his "enemies" exert a "strong attraction" on many social layers in many countries. Therefore, he said there are "serious reasons to be worried."

In addition, he has warned of the lack of trust in institutions and stressed that people lose faith in them when politicians who represent them "stop believing in them." At this point, he said that the 1978 pact "has been broken" and now we have to "rebuild society." "The question is, can it be done? Is it possible to do it now? How is it possible to do it now?" He asked.

In turn, Gonzalez has pointed out that there is a crisis of governance of representative democracy and added that they are returning to "certain provincialism" and "ombliguism." That crisis, it has continued, implies that citizens do not remain represented by their representatives.

Of course, he has admitted that what was built in Spain with the Transition is "quite resilent" because they have already gone through "very strong attacks" and have "overcome" them without "excessive trauma." Aznar has also shared that Spain is a "historically resistant" country, but has stressed that the "domestic problem" with independence "affects stability in terms of cohesion of the State and the subsistence of the Spanish nation."


González has pointed out that the Transition and the Moncloa Pacts gave stability for 35 years but "the party is over" because they have returned to the "historical normality" in Spain that was in the past, based on "instability, fragility" and the "lack of predictability."

As he added, since 2015 the country is in a situation of uncertainty but the "resilience of Spain" is high and they will succeed despite the fact that "it is no longer possible" to return to what was agreed in the eighties and nineties but have that "rethink" Spain.

"The million dollar question is how do we get cross-cutting agreements based on the principles that have allowed us to live for years in peace, freedom and stability," Gonzalez added, to insist again that politicians should take the "knife from their mouths" and Can talk. In fact, he recalled that in 1981, when Adolfo Suárez lacks 14 votes to approve the Budgets "16 socialist deputies were absent from the vote."


Aznar has also said that he wants Spain to have a predictable horizon and "shared" projects and objectives that guarantee a "future of stability for the next 35 years," but he has admitted that in the current scenario "it will cost work." As his predecessor, he has said that he believes "there is no turning back on many things" and that it is "time to build" and "look forward".

Aznar has said he feels "distraught" because he doesn't "like anything" what he is seeing in Spanish society. "I do not like what is happening because what is happening is very difficult to forge common goals and projects," he said.

In a row, Gonzalez has warned of a "rebirth of regressive utopias" and a "polarization towards the extremes." Thus, he pointed out that the authoritarianism of the left and right "the first thing that crushes is the centrality" in which civil society lives. In the same way, Aznar has pointed out that at this time there are "extremes everywhere."


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